It Means What It Means

Episode 44: The Song of Songs: A Narrative in Lyric Poetry with Gavin Fernandes

Gavin Fernandes discusses his article on the Song of Songs and the issue with the interpretation of the words 'melech' and 'alamot'. He argues that the word 'melech' should be understood as 'king' and not dismissed or interpreted figuratively. He also emphasizes the importance of understanding the literary integrity of the text and the presence of three parties: the king, the woman, and the women. Fernandes explores the debate on whether the Song of Songs has a narrative and argues that it is a lyric poetry that can convey a narrative. He discusses the historical and theological interpretations of the Song of Songs and the challenges of reconciling the literary and theological perspectives. The conversation explores the complexity and structure of the Song of Songs, focusing on the characters, themes, and narrative progression. The guest argues that the song is a literary unity rather than a collection of songs. They discuss the use of pastoral language and the presence of multiple characters speaking in the text. The guest also suggests that the song can be seen as an early Cinderella narrative. They touch on the performative potential of the song but argue that it was not originally intended as a stage piece.

Episode 43: Islam and the Bible V with Mark Durie

Mark Durie, an Anglican pastor and expert on Islam, discusses the influence of Charles Kraft on missions to Muslims. Kraft, a missiologist, promoted the idea of insider movements, where Muslims could follow Christ while retaining their Muslim identity. Durie explains that Kraft's approach to biblical translation was influenced by Eugene Nida, who believed that meaning was determined by the response it evoked. Kraft argued for the removal of terms like 'Son of God' and 'Father' from Bible translations to avoid offense to Muslims. Durie critiques Kraft's dismissal of the Nicene Creed and emphasizes the importance of cultural sensitivity in missions. In this conversation, Jared and Mark Durie discuss the issue of insider movements and Muslim idiom translations. They explore the interaction between Orthodox or Eastern Christians and the concept of insider movements. They also delve into the concern for ontology and the substance of Jesus in the biblical text, as well as the relationship between Christianity and Islam. Mark Durie critiques Charles Kraft's view of Islam as a cultural heresy of Christianity and discusses the challenges of understanding different cultures and languages. He emphasizes the importance of engaging with different perspectives and wrestling with complex ideas.

Episode 42: Islam and the Bible IV with Kyle from Bible Translation Fellowship

Kyle discusses the importance of Bible translation for the church and challenges the notion that the Bible is primarily for non-Christians. He emphasizes the need for pastors and laypeople to engage with the original languages of the Bible and highlights the role of exegesis, hermeneutics, and theology in interpretation. Kyle also emphasizes the importance of stable translations that can be used by Christian communities for worship, teaching, and evangelism. In this conversation, Kyle discusses the importance of receptivity and thinking about the audience when it comes to Bible translation. He also emphasizes the role of translations and footnotes in helping people understand the original languages. Kyle highlights the historical importance of Bible translation, particularly in the context of creeds and confessions. He emphasizes the need for Bible translation in local congregations and encourages pastors and laypeople to pray for and engage in this important work. Kyle also shares recommended resources for further exploration and discusses his reading preferences and ways to decompress.

Episode 41: Islam and the Bible III with Georges Houssney

In this conversation, Georges Houssney discusses his background and ministry, as well as the impact of the Arabic language on Islam and Christianity. He explains the differences in terminology between the two religions and the challenges of translating the Bible into Arabic. Georges also shares his perspective on the Insider Movement and the importance of the Orthodox Church's historical approach to theology. He emphasizes the need for a transformational model of evangelism and the cultural changes that come with accepting Christianity. Georges concludes by discussing the concept of the Son of God and the challenges of interpreting this theological term. The conversation explores various theological and cultural topics related to Christian theology and missiology. Georges passionately discusses the core of Christian theology and the importance of the relationship between God as the father and Jesus as the son. He also mentions additional resources, such as Biblical Missiology, for further study. The concept of redeeming missiology is introduced, which involves integrating social sciences with biblical theology. Georges emphasizes the importance of reading the Bible with the intent of God rather than imposing personal interpretations. The conversation concludes with a discussion on reading and writing, with Georges sharing his focus on writing books and articles.

Episode 40: Islam and the Bible II with Fred Farrokh

In this conversation, Fred Farrokh discusses the controversy surrounding Muslim Idiom Bible translations and the theological assumptions behind them. He explains the challenges faced by Bible translators in communicating the gospel to Muslims and the tension between making the message understandable and acceptable. The conversation also touches on the role of indigenous Christian communities, the complexity of cultural context, and the translation of divine familial terminology. Farrokh emphasizes the importance of contextualizing the Bible in a way that people can understand and the need for a good diagnosis to find appropriate solutions. This conversation explores the controversy surrounding the translation of the terms “Son of Man” and “Son of God” in the Bible for Muslim audiences. The discussion delves into the political and theological implications of these translations, as well as the impact on Muslim perceptions of the Bible. The conversation also highlights the importance of understanding the cultural and linguistic context in Bible translation.

Episode 39: Islam and the Bible I with Ant B Greenham

This conversation explores the topic of Muslim Idiom Translations in the context of Bible translation and the challenges faced by Christians in Muslim majority societies. The discussion covers the history of Arabic-speaking Christians, the tension between missiology and ecclesiology, and the concerns of Christians in Muslim majority societies. The target audience for this conversation includes Bible translators, linguists, mission organizations, missionaries, seminaries, pastors, and supporting churches. In this conversation, Ant Greenham discusses his book on Bible translation and the importance of the subject. He highlights that the book provides valuable insights for both experts and those with a general interest in the topic. Ant also shares his personal reading preferences, focusing on history and culture. The conversation concludes with Jared expressing his gratitude and extending an invitation for future discussions.

Episode 38: The Souring of the Ways with John Dunne

In this conversation, John Dunne discusses his recent article “The Souring of the Ways: Anti-Jewish Readings of Psalm 69 and the Wine Offerings to Jesus.” He explores the texts in the gospels and the Hebrew Bible, highlighting the differences and inconsistencies in the details of the wine offerings. Dunne argues that the simplification of these details in later tradition is influenced by the intertext of Psalm 69. This simplification leads to an anti-Jewish reading, where the Jewish people are blamed for offering sour wine and gall to Jesus. Dunne also examines the commentaries on Psalm 69 and how they contribute to this anti-Jewish interpretation. The conversation explores the use of intertextuality in the Gospels, specifically focusing on the references to Psalm 69. John argues that the Gospel authors are not intentionally drawing from the Septuagint or consciously using biblical language, but rather they are leveraging the psalm intertext and it became a ubiquitous way of thinking about the events. The conversation also touches on the variations in the Gospel accounts and the subsequent development of the tradition that implicates the Jewish people. John emphasizes the importance of reading each Gospel on its own and understanding its unique theological interests. John Dunne is one of a team of contributors to the blog/podcast The Two Cities.

Episode 37: The Illustrated Cairo Genizah with Nick Posegay

Nick Posegay, a postdoctoral researcher at the Cambridge Faculty of Asian and Middle Eastern Studies, discusses the Cairo Genizah, a Jewish collection of texts that contains manuscripts from the 8th to the 20th century. He explains the history and significance of the Genizah, the types of materials and inks used in the manuscripts, and the challenges of dating and cataloging the fragments. Posegay also recommends books, such as Sacred Trash and The Sisters of Sinai, that provide further insights into the Genizah and its discovery. Check out my next guest John Anthony Dunne on his blog/podcast The Two Cities.

Episode 36: Who You Callin' Short with Isaac T Soon

In this conversation, Jared interviews Isaac T. Soon, an expert in religious studies, about his article on the interpretation of the Zacchaeus story in Luke 19:1-10. They discuss the common assumption that Zacchaeus is the short one in the story, while Jesus is seen as normal and able-bodied. Isaac challenges this interpretation and argues that it is possible that Jesus is the short one, which disrupts the traditional understanding of Jesus as physically perfect. They also touch on the intersection of disability studies and biblical interpretation, as well as the need for more diverse perspectives in the field.

Episode 35: Centurions in the Jesus Movement? with Rebecca Runesson

Rebecca Runesson discusses her article on Centurions in the Jesus Movement and the Gaianus inscription at Kefar ‘Othnay. She explores the role of centurions as patrons and their interactions with the local community. The spread of ideas and belief systems is examined through the lens of weak ties and strong ties. The Gaianus inscription is analyzed as an example of patronage in the early Christ cult. This conversation explores the symbiotic nature of patronage, the role of weak ties in social networks, and the potential of soldiers and centurions to adopt new ideas. It delves into the spread of the Jesus movement among soldiers and the influence of weak ties on their adoption of new ideas. The conversation also questions assumptions about the relationship between centurions and Christ groups, and recommends readings on patronage and centurions. Additionally, it touches on the enjoyment of reading children's books for fun.